Use of Courtesy Notice for paid-up Kiwibank mortgage?

[Cross-posting this as separate topic so it stands out on the board.]

cptn_fantastic wrote:

Hello all.
All the explanations and examples I
have seen to date refer to parking tickets, speeding tickets, the
bailiff and the like. None seem to mention the banks.
I have a
mortgage with Kiwibank here in NZ. There is certainly no individuals
name on any contract I have signed with the bank. Do I, in this
situation, send the courtesy notice to the bank manager?
Is the courtesy notice even useful or recommended for use against a bank mortgage?
I am currently up to date with payments.
Thank you.

No, you don't send the notice to the "bank manager" because a) there is no bank anymore, b) there is therefore also no "manager," and c) the Courtesy Notice is only intended for the individual human being who directly acts against you.

Yes, the Courtesy Notice is appropriate for communications received from here on out from a purported mortgage "lender." As the Notice instructions explain, you cannot use it for something you received from a purported creditor before, say, December 25, 2012. (Actually, I think the date is really Oct 24th, UN Day, but don't quote me on that.) So, in order to use the Courtesy Notice with a purported mortgage lender, you would need to give them a reason to send you a communication. For example, you could withhold your next payment and wait for them to send you the first "reminder" notice. (Notice that they use notices, too!) Then you would reference that "reminder" notice in your Courtesy Notice.

Indeed, the most difficult aspect of using Courtesy Notice is the collecting of the name(s) of the likely individual(s) who pressed the computer key that printed out the "reminder" notice with your legal fiction name on it, stuffed it in an envelope and sent it to the mail room. It may not be possible with a bank, which is secretive by nature. This is where we're going to have to get creative in figuring out ways to ferret out that information. You could try something like calling the number (if there is one) on the "reminder" notice to ask the specific meaning of some of the words in the notice. Most of us don't actually read these sorts of notices very carefully. I'm sure that if you really focused on the words, you could find a phrase or two that you honestly don't fully comprehend. So, you call the number and very politely ask to speak to someone from the office that sends out these notices and when (if) you get that person on the line, be very friendly and tell them you hope they can help you because you're having trouble understanding the notice. At some point during the conversation, if they haven't given you their name yet, tell them how helpful they have been and could you please know their name? Do not be confrontational! That will get you nowhere.

Another way to try getting a name of an individual in the department that sends out "reminder" notices is to rent a post office box and then call the mortgage servicing department to inform them that you would like all future communications from them to be sent to that post office box. When you get a individual from the department that mails notices, politely thank them for taking your information and try asking for their name.

And yet another idea is to call them when you get a reminder notice and say you are suspicious that the
reminder notice is fraudulent and not from an authorized employee of the lender at all. Tell them that you will be satisfied if they can give you the name of the specific person (or persons) who likely caused the
notice to be sent.

Remember, also, that computers probably automatically spit out reminder notices every day and you are really just looking for the low-salary individual(s) who do nothing but take the notices off the printer and shove them in envelopes.

Good luck!

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated.
I had thought going into default would be the leg-in to the whole exercise, and to be perfectly honest, default was something I hoped to avoid. This avoidance is of course a manifestation of my own fears, anxieties and lingering doubts- easier by far to send off notices when, even if they take exception to them, because I'm up-to-date, naught could be done against me.
There yet remains a notion that it would be I who is in dishonour withholding my payments, as this bumps up against my desire to honour my obligations. This work it seems, is as much breaking down ones own inner systems and restrictions, as it is the outer ones, and as I sit here in reflection, they appear to be one and the same! It is more about Me, than it is about the banks!
There is a degree of discomfort in witnessing ones immovability through fear, and more again admitting this to you all out in the World at large. In being fearful I know I am not alone, however this knowledge brings little comfort.
Well, I was warned of course, this is spiritual work, work on ones self, work with and for others- no work, no food! In this case the food is a harmonious Humanity, abundance, love, peace, freedom and prosperity for all.
So now it is time to pause, take a deep breath and take the plunge.
As the saying goes, feel the fear, and do it anyway!

Once again, my thanks.
Kind regards,
Ron.

Ron,

Being late with a payment does not mean "going into default." That probably only happens after 3 or more missed payments. All you need do, initially, is evoke some sort of communication from the bank or mortgage servicer. A "reminder" notice for one, single late payment will do the trick. You can always "chicken out" after you get that notice and go ahead and pay up your account while still sending a Courtesy Notice in response to that reminder notice.

Your feelings of obligation to pay your "debts" are understandable. However, educating yourself about the debt-based, private money systems should prove to you that that sense of obligation is wholly misplaced in this context. In fact, NOTHING WAS LOANED TO YOU. You have to come to understand that. It's not simply about the amorphous "big, evil banks." It's about outright fraud. You have to come to know this by doing your homework.

I, too, am paid up on my mortgage and in no danger (that I can see) of missing a future payment. And I, too, am contemplating intentionally withholding the next payment just to receive a communication from the mortgage servicer. Toward that end, I have already started some investigative work to collect names of individuals who probably work in the collections department that issues those reminder notices. I started with the servicing company's "Careers" page to find the likely job titles; e.g., Collection Representative I - Early Stage, Collections Representative II - Early Stage. With those titles and the name of the servicing company, I can do some directed searches of LinkedIn.com, where people love to post their resumes. I've already had a number of matches. My point in sharing all of this is that it would be wise to do some research first, to see if it's even possible to come up with some individual names, before you decide to try letting a payment go late. If your early investigative work turns up no results, it's probably not a good idea yet to try the late payment.

Marbolot

Sound advise Marbolot, thank you.
The fraudulent nature of the banks is well understood. Have to keep that in the forefront of the mind.
I will have a hunt around the workings of kiwibank, with-hold a payment, and follow my nose. (which is connected to my Heart!)
Here we go, interesting times coming...

Thanks again.
Kind Regards,
Ron.

The key to moving forward is when you face the true fact that you do not owe that mortgage payment, car payment, tax and such. When you do that and realize that you give this the energy it so truly deserves.

I am taken action and moving this along for myself as I hope others will, as well. This has legs, but needs us to run the race.